Anti-lesbian harassment at Vancouver Dyke March

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This is a guest post by Katherine Jeffcott who attended the Vancouver Dyke March on August 5, 2017. She says:

I thought I would share my account of the dyke march in Vancouver, including pictures. As you know, I’m big on making women central in my feminism. So, I made a sign which stated simply “dyke power is female”. Here is me with my sign:

Well, we were marching, when this trans woman who was obviously a volunteer or a marshal, came up to me and yelled at me. She said my sign was transmisogynistic (because it doesn’t include male anatomy). Essentially the uterus offended this person. So she yelled at me, but one of my sisters quickly came up and put her arm around me, indicating I wasn’t alone. I kept marching. Meanwhile I was surrounded by other awesome women with amazing signs. Like this:

And this:

We weren’t saying anything against trans, we were simply focusing on women. Interestingly enough when the parade ended and we were in the park, this same trans person followed us everywhere:

They removed their top and followed us in a pink speedo where ever we went. We didn’t say or do anything to provoke this person. All we did was talk about women and female anatomy. Eventually I felt freaked out enough that my partner came and picked me up. I literally had shaky palms and was sweating. I was nervous until I saw my sisters with their sign that said Trust In God: Grumpy Old Dykes. Then I felt at home.

But my question to you is, what about women? Why are we being intimidated in our own spaces? What is it about our anatomy that is not acceptable?

117 thoughts on “Anti-lesbian harassment at Vancouver Dyke March”

  4. To be bullied for your expression of PRIDE, especially from within the community, is like a slap in the face that knocks us back a hundred years with one blow. I’m sorry you experienced friendly fire for celebrating the beautiful God-given female essence. Being Dyke IS a female privilege. Trans have their own spectrum so we should all be free to celebrate–period (pun intended). After all, isn’t the beauty of a Lesbian Dyke in that they ARE female… that’s kinda kinda the point, right.
    Just my opinion.
    Women are beautiful in all our forms.
    🌈❤😉

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    • I really, really wish trans activists would stop invading lesbian space and instead make their own events. This kind of policing is just inexcusable. Dyke marches were created by lesbians for lesbians, not for whatever-identified men.

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    • Hmm how you get experience friendly fire, “Well, we were marching, when this trans woman who was obviously a volunteer or a marshal, came up to me and yelled at me. She said my sign was transmisogynistic (because it doesn’t include male anatomy). Essentially the uterus offended this person. So she yelled at me, but one of my sisters quickly came up and put her arm around me, indicating I wasn’t alone. I kept marching. ” From this is beyond me CloudyAndFair , It was more Verbal an Assault on the ears, an act of agression, and a unnecessary verbal spray, in at time and place where it was pre advertised , and an annual event/march for a predetermined group of people. to say friendly fire is to dismiss the actions of the aggressor the negate the the thoughts and feelings of the writer. this is unacceptable behaviour to women and to men even who have comon decency respect and an ability to have self control .
      Being a dyke IS a privilege you say , Umm NO IT IS NOT .there is nothing about being a female in the patriarchal society of today let alone a Dyke a privilege…and NO that is not the point at all. Women in all our forms , Are NOT males professing to be females that is Bad form, the is delusional form I / we are the Female Form. sexed by birth, formed in the womb delivered to the world , and NO male gets to call himself female That is Sacrilege , and an Insult to all women
      Just My Opinion.

      Liked by 16 people

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      • Male aggression at a Dyke March isn’t “friendly fire” it is just plain old misogyny. Men being angry that lesbians don’t want penis is nothing new.
        (And I won’t call this dude a transwoman. He clearly doesn’t feel dysphoric about his maleness, as he calls attention to it instead of hoping that no one notices it.)

        Liked by 22 people

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      • Thank you (sincerely), mybushwood. It was not my intention to negate the thoughts and feelings of the writer, or dismiss the actions of the aggressor. Your reproach was appreciated and explanation helpful. My late-life naivety is no excuse. I have so much to learn and will try to be more mindful when approaching a subject (or word/label, etc.) of which I have so little knowledge. I hope you will consider my apology.
        – (formerly) CloudyAndFair

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    • CloudyAndFair thanks for your comment, I couldn’t agree more!
      I think mybushwood misinterpreted what you said.
      I particularly like
      ” Being Dyke IS a female privilege… Women are beautiful in all our forms.”
      It’s the celebration of who we are, because we know we’re special!
      This is profound and revolutionary! 🌈❤😊

      Liked by 1 person

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    • CloudyAndFair The following video contains opinions of our sisters (1990’s) about lesbian separatism – in which Alix Dobkin comments that separatism is a negative way of seeing things and “we’re still identified by who we’re not with (men)”, then she’d prefer to call herself a “lesbian connectionist”. 😊
      The video also has a trailer of the movie “Thank God I’m a Lesbian (dir Dominique Cardona, Laurie Colbert -1992) – that I believe resonate well with your comment.
      Lesbian Separatist Feminist supercut 💖💖

      Liked by 1 person

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  5. “… my question to you is, … What is it about our anatomy that is not acceptable?”

    Visceral fear of female automomy permeates the class: Men (female impersonators or not).
    Feeling irrelevant to even a small subgroup of women is intolerable and so threatening examples of female independence must be swiftly; brutally suppressed (better a hindrance than an irrelevancy, feels the man).

    Liked by 9 people

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    • What Part about ,lesbian & us taking back the word from which males would vehemently yell out at women , whether they were or not Dyke, to make it our own so it has lost the power to denigrate women loving women exclusively , do you not get James Cates,, Are you asking what about men , and their apendage ? Or are asking what about you , or are you wanting to be on the blogg to throw yours (apendage) around did you want to repulse us further ? Did you want to come into a womens blogg to make your male presences known, to antagonisze further , What is it ,? about your poor intellect that you cannot figure out a word that is self explanitory in it’s meaning , a simple dictionary would have suffice, to any other mere male , and yet , here you are Good Grief.

      Liked by 1 person

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  6. It’s when I think of how long women have had their bodies neglected, shamed, raped, and mutilated that I know we NEED our own spaces. The fact that we are being erased, that the very root of our oppression is being silenced and censored, necessitates women–only spaces. Rebel, sisters. Rebel.

    Liked by 9 people

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    • Agreed. There have been so many trans activists who later do something violent, it’s instructive to see the patterns of behavior (like Dana rivers protesting mich fest before murdering). Anyone who intimidates women in public gives up their anonymity.

      Liked by 8 people

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  9. I hate that the trans brigade has appropriated words like “misogyny” to make up words like ” transmisogynistic ” to describe their issues. If this were any other oppressed group other than woman, it would be (rightly) unacceptable. And of course they appropriated the word “dyke.”

    Liked by 12 people

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    • I just go ahead and use the word “transmisogyny” correctly: trans hatred of women. If it isn’t clear from the context how I’m defining it, I state so, explicitly, so there’s no question.

      I use the term “transposing” as it logically means, as often as possible. If we keep doing this, it will help restore the word to its rightful, logical meaning: MtTs are misogynists.

      The man harassing our post author, Katherine Jeddcott, and.other lesbians at the Dyke March is a transmisogynist.

      Whenever I post news stories about violent MtTs to Facebook, I write, “This man is a transmisogynist.”

      Everyone, please join in, using this term properly 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

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  10. Just a question.

    How is it that not talking about something/someone is now considered to be exclusionary?

    That’s male logicks. It makes no sense.

    I mean, this post doesn’t mention dogs. Or pizza. Or socks.

    Why is this post being exclusionary of dogs, pizza and socks? Why are dogs, pizza and socks being hatefully erased and excluded? Why do you hate dogs, pizza and socks? They aren’t even mentioned once!

    See what I mean? It is stupid.

    Also, if dudebro was prancing about in a speedo, that’s just fucking gross. And meant to be a threat.

    Liked by 10 people

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      • Their attitude is turning me into a full on asshole.

        For a long time, I felt badly for males that aren’t “manly” enough to fit into the patriarchal society that they all benefit from. And when some of them translated that into wearing a dress or whatever, I didn’t particularly care.

        But now? Now it seems like their proclimations of feeling “woman-y” or whatever has absolutely nothing to do with their inner girl feels, and everything to do with harassing us.

        This trans bullshit isn’t about males feeling anything at all. It’s just another way to bully and threaten us.

        They have killed any sympathy that I ever had for them. Just like all of the other males.

        Liked by 7 people

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        • Supporting gender-bending in males is a politically advantageous act for women. But transgenderism, which actually started out as gender-bending, has now morphed into gender-confirmation. They have turned it on its head.

          Liked by 7 people

  11. Up until 5 years ago we lived in Vancouver and would always go to the dyke march, but even then we were dismayed by the numbers of men who were marching, not content to be ‘allies’ but stealing the street we walked on. So, not surprising … sad and infuriating, but not surprising. 😦

    Liked by 6 people

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  12. Uhh…. yelled? Sorry sir, but that’s a bald-faced lie. I was careful to walk up close so that I wouldn’t have to raise my voice, because I’d blown my voice out chanting at the Trans March the night before and could barely speak above a whisper. My words were “excuse me, but that sign is bioessentialist which might seem transphobic to some folks.” Somebody standing less than 10 feet away asked me what I had said to you — because I had said it softly.

    I chose the words that I did because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt: that you might be naive rather than malicious. Strangely, that’s the story that you’re trying to paint here: you were only being positive about folks with uteruses. First off, that’s a lie; your desire to exterminate transwomen is plain and your attempt at gaslighting didn’t work with me nor the VDM board. Apparently, one of them already knew about you from past shenanigans. Second, in defining women as “people with uteruses” or “people with exactly 2 X chromosomes” or “people who have periods” or whatever your binary definition may be; there’s lots of ciswomen out there who don’t satisfy those requirements.

    That’s harmful: intersex and transgender women are frequently mistreated by the medical industry because their bodies don’t match up with your diagram, and all women; intersex, trans or cis; are harmed when you tell them that their bodies are wrong. I recognize that you only care about hurting and excluding transwomen, but please, look behind your target to see who else you’re hitting with your vitriolic spew.

    Verbal communication isn’t my strong suit. Instead, I used two tools to evict you: my little tits bearing the words “natural born lesbian”, and my enormous patience. Yelling only serves to escalate a situation; I’d lose in patience by starting a conflict, and you’d gain in resolve by the same.

    Oh by the way, I really appreciate an opportunity you gave me on Saturday. I forgot to put on any sunblock, but thanks to the haze, I not only didn’t burn but also my tan is perfectly even since so much of the light was ambient. It’s amazing!!! As a ginger, I’ve never been able to tan like this! Cool deal. Ten stars, would countercounterprotest again.

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    • Nobody is trying to exterminate you. Women’s understanding of our own biology and sexual orientation is not harmful to you and it doesn’t lead to mistreatment by the medical industry.
      All adult human females meet the definition of adult human females.
      You are welcome to do whatever you want with your own body, however you are not a lesbian since you are not female. Don’t call yourself by our name, it doesn’t belong to you. And don’t harass lesbians.

      Liked by 15 people

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      • “All adult human females meet the definition of adult human females.”

        Sorry guy, I’m a scientist. I cannot condone such circular reasoning. You act like you have a definition, but actually you’re just deciding for folks whether or not they’re women. Why lie about that?

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        • There are clear definitions of the words male and female in science textbooks. The vast majority of people have typical male or female bodies. If you were a scientist, then queer theory would make you laugh.

          Liked by 14 people

        • Purplesagefem
          I can find you textbooks that define homosexuality as a disease. I’m not sure textbooks are a source of One True Truth. As our understanding of human biology/developed /sexuality etc changes, so do the textbooks we write.
          Not to mention the most obvious point…that the textbooks you’re using to define yourself, are by and large written by men…

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    • Feminine men are not women. Angry men are not women. Men who have been medically altered are not women. Men who are physically damaged or have developmental disorders are not women. You are all men. There is nothing wrong with that, but there is a hell of a lot wrong with bullying your way into women’s marches and spaces and harassing lesbians and other women.

      You are men. Work for your own spaces like women did ours. Admit you are men, respect our boundaries, name the problem as male violence, not women. And then maybe we could work with you. But what you are doing is terrorism.

      Liked by 15 people

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      • It always makes me giggle a little bit when ladymen say that we are trying to say who is a woman, or that we are trying to define woman.

        When have we ever been allowed to define ourselves? Males have always defined who we are and what our place in society is. Males have always dictated what makes a proper woman.

        Males have now decided that we are some kind of a magical, mystical essence, an identity that they can put on, easy as putting on a dress! We aren’t human, we are an idea that can be mimicked, like a costume.

        Such projection on their part, that we have a say in what womanhood or being a woman actually is. We have never had that right. And we obviously still don’t.

        Liked by 11 people

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      • But the point folks seem to be missing is that this was not a ‘biological women’s’ March. The March is openly she explicitly a place for self-identified women. So that fact that everyone here defines ‘woman’ differently is of no consequence to this discussion.
        You folks are saying that as people with uteruses, you were harassed in your own space, but it was factually NOT your space. The March was a space EXPLICITLY for self identified women, including transwomen. Openly and clearly so. So you went into someone else’s space. Whether or not you were harassed and whether or not you thing transgender women are men or women is a different issues. The issue here is that you’re claiming a trans-inclusive space as your own. It isn’t. You can’t take it. You can’t lay claim to it. You can’t insist trans people work hard for their own spaces like uterus-owning women do…cuz this WAS a trans space. The Dyke March folks confirm this. It’s not a matter of opinion. The organizers have confirmed it was a space inclusive of transgender women. You can be bumped about that, adhd you can wish it were a space that is only for uterus-owning people…but you can’t say it was. You can’t say it’s yours because you wish it was. Just like if you organize an event specifically for folks with uteruses, people without then can’t just randomly lay claim to that event just because they wish it was for them.

        Transgender people organized the event, welcomed transgender people and intended it to be a safe place for them and any other queers who share their unclusive perspective. Those are facts, not opinions. How is there argument?

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        • You are correct on one point: the Dyke March has been colonized by trans identified males (two years ago, I believe, in a hostile takeover, from what I’ve heard). Even though they had their own march later in the day, it’s not enough for them. Well, we won’t go down without a fight. We will not be bullied out of our own march.

          Liked by 5 people

        • This happens so often with Boards of Directors. They get targeted by moles from the other side who take over the group’s agenda and make extreme changes.

          Liked by 3 people

        • It’s kind of a bummer to write a long thing only to find no-one is willing/able to address any of the points maturely, preferring instead to do the ol’ ‘I know you are but what am I’ response from elementary school days.

          There’s really no thoughtful response to the fact that the Dyke March is actually intended for the folks who were there, and explicitly not intended for the folks claiming it was their event?
          If the Dyke March changed the name of its event next year, would that help with this issue? If it was called the Queer Diversity March or something? Is it the fact that it has Dyke in the name that pisses you his off and makes you feel like it’s yours?
          Cuz that might be a solution they’re willing to consider. Obviously they’re not going to consider excluding a marginalized group they’re trying to create a safe space for. But they might rename it, so it’s not using a word that you feel like is yours. Might be worth looking into…

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        • You don’t seem to get it. Y’all could have started your own Queer Diversity March any time you wanted. But no, you had to engage in a hostile takeover of a march created by and for lesbians, as in XX women.

          Liked by 4 people

        • So changing the event name would help? If you guys got to host your own Dyke March just for folks with chromosomes like yours, and the rest of the queers did their own thing, under a more suitable name…that would solve this? Cuz that’s probably a solution folks might be open to hearing, if it was presented respectfully, in the spirit of conflict resolution, without all this unkindness and name calling and intentional hurting of others. Folks might just agree to hand over the name…

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        • Angie, I am perfectly able to address your points, but I haven’t yet because I actually have a life and haven’t had time for blogging in the last few days. Please just keep your pants on, and rest assured that I will be back within a matter of days to patiently explain to you how much homophobia, misogyny, and lies are at the foundation of your belief system.

          Liked by 4 people

        • I dunno how Angie got here, I woke up yesterday afternoon and here he was. Last comment I approved was from somebody else.

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        • I approved Angie’s comments yesterday, and my attempt to put Angie in moderation didn’t work. That’s what happens when you try to moderate comments from your phone while travelling! Anyway Angie is in moderation now.

          Liked by 2 people

        • How very transwoman-ish of you to demand that people respond to you. Quite revealing of socialization, I would say.

          If you think a name change is the solution you are either willfully obtuse, ignorant, or just baiting people. But here is my response, in bullet points, made crystal clear, for the record.

          • The Dyke march was founded in the early aughts by lesbians, for lesbians (defined as same-sex oriented biological females). Which is why they recognize it as their march.

          • Like many gay and lesbian organizations, it has been taken over by trans persons. Which is why trans are perceived as interlopers.

          • If the march were truly for “all women” born women should be able to talk about their female anatomy and their feminist heroes. Instead they were harassed by trans, who, as usual, want everything to be always about them all the time and all others to shut up.

          • There was a trans march scheduled – trans could have had that all to themselves. But they had to dominate both marches.

          • Born women were harassed by trans women at a march their predecessors created for them, creating understandable resentment and anger.

          • Suggesting a name change as a solution is a bit like taking somebody’s country over by force, and when they resist, offering to just change the name to reflect that it now not their country anymore.

          Liked by 5 people

        • According to your wall of text, males took over the dyke march, and women need to shut up.

          We get it. Unfortunately, women aren’t going to sit down and shut up while males take over. I know that you want us to.

          And the fact that you don’t support women or care about their wants and needs doesn’t matter. I don’t care. And I don’t think that anyone else does, either.

          Liked by 3 people

      • Yell? More like “speak as quietly as possible whilst being heard in a crowd.” Or do you mean when you asked me “do you mind” and I repeated that back with a little raised inflection; “do YOU mind?” Because fair enough, I totally said YOU in allcaps and that syllable was probs super scary.

        Stalk? More like “follow around to counter your hateful message until you took it out of the park with you.”

        Intimidate with my shirt off? More like “walk or stand immediately outside of your personal space with my terror breasts exposed.” Gosh. It kinda does sound intimidating now that I’ve got terror breasts

        Liked by 1 person

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        • “Men cannot be lesbians” is not hate speech, because “man” is not a pejorative term. Similarly, “cats cannot be dogs” is not hate speech.

          “Man” is a sexual category of human. The sexual binary is real, because that’s how humans make more humans: sperm plus egg.

          Now, tell me some more about how you’re a scientist, since you do not appear to understand these matters. Or do you just identify as a scientist?

          Male stalking and harassment of women with the intent to intimidate as you were, is indeed a subtle form of terrorism. Dyke marches were created by and for lesbians, not heterosexual men with breasts. You were the interloper, and you have the temerity to say you belonged there and these women did not.

          Actually, you are correct, though. You don’t really rise to the bar of “terrorist.” You’re simply a thug.

          Liked by 9 people

        • I see that you chose the fallible sperm and egg dichotomy. So what if somebody doesn’t have the organs to produce either? That happens to lots of people, some before they can even develop them. Or maybe the organs grow but for one reason or another don’t produce gametes

          A court of law would recognize that your sign is coded hate speech (re C-16) and therefore inflammatory, justifying my sign, presence and speech. My behavior as a volunteer responsible for event security was unremarkable.

          A court of dykes found that your tiny crew is USELESS FUCKING TERF GARBAGE and asked me to get your bigoted asses out of the park because, in part, you were making cisdykes uncomfortable too

          Liked by 1 person

        • Women are not failed men. And people with intersex disorders are on record as not wanting to be dragged into this. And there are not “lots” of intersex people. They are a tiny minority of humans.

          “Coded hate speech.” Second rule of misogyny: women saying “no” to men is a hate crime.

          “A court of dykes.” You are not a lesbian and you don’t know a “court of dykes.” Maybe you know some women you have scared into obeying you, like men do at times. But anyone who was willing to see themselves referred to as a “cisdyke” could be anybody, according to your ideology, where anybody is whatever they say they are.

          Nothing means anything to adherents of this ideology, except boundary transgression. There are no words for cis-transgression or trans-transgression, because there are no need for them in queer theory, as transgression is the only reality.

          Liked by 9 people

        • Actually, that “court of dykes” was the VDM board. Of course, they didn’t use quite the same language but I bet any of them who stoops to reading the drivel on this page will get a chuckle, though.

          And when I say lots of people, I mean perhaps millions of folks in the world. Some of the folks I’m talking about are intersex, but some of them are just built different, receive injuries etc., and your narrative that women are only as good as their reproductive organs is fucking harmful and don’t you think that’s a little misogynistic?

          I dunno if you’re calling yourself a failed man or if you’re calling me a failed man with this commentary, but whenever I hear “failed man” I gotta wonder if a person means “successful woman” because you can’t touch me with your hate, bro

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        • Generally speaking, humans have two arms and two legs. There are a few rare humans who are born differently, and some humans are amputees.

          See how I just reduced humans to arms and legs?

          You guys really need to get some new flawed arguments. I’m terribly bored with seeing the same ones parroted thousands of times. Also, insulting people just tells everyone that you are incapable of honest debate to sustain your position, which isn’t particularly surprising because it is unsustainable.

          Material reality always wins. You cannot identify yourself away from it.

          Liked by 10 people

      • Oh Wanda, you small dicked failure as a man. Sorry but you aren’t doing any better as a woman than you did as a man and most men can’t be arsed chasing dykes out of a dyke march, they let that stuff go cos they are secure enough not to have to stalk lesbians (just saying)

        if you actually were a woman (if for a moment we step off the planet and pretend men can become women) you have totally failed the womaning thing, you know, the things woman always have had to deal with in that we have always been told whatever kind of women we are we still aren’t good enough.

        I really don’t get it. All these men pretending to be women then having major sooky la las when they are treated like women are. They whine they aren’t listened to. (LOLS welcome to womaning dudes) They whine their body isn’t good enough. (LOLS welcome to womaning dudes). Women stop whining at about 5 years old realising they are screwed and settle down to make the best of it but here comes Wanda, stalking and chasing women out of their own spaces.

        Wanda boasts of getting a tan while stalking women and bullying them out of womens space. Right on dude. You are such a womany woman, you make me feel like a failure as a woman. Like that is my go to zone. I totally agree I am failing as a woman because I failed to bully women out of a dyke march and get a tan at the same time. / sarcasm (for Wanda) I don’t need to see your face in a photo to know you’ll never pass dude.

        Liked by 11 people

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        • and PS nobfuckle (er Wanda) When real women talk about small dicked men, they mean insecure men who bully women. In case you were wondering. It goes with the territory and is unrelated to actual dick size, (And this is a concept that no real woman needs explained dude – not that you care obviously)

          Liked by 10 people

        • Out of curiosity, how do you guys intend on addressing the upcoming generation of transgender folks, who’ve transitioned much earlier than the current generation?
          I work in an elementary school, and we currently have a 5 year old transgender student. She identifies as a girl, is accepted by her peers as a girl, will likely be on hormone therapy before puberty etc etc. As an adult woman, having lived all but the first 3-4 years of her life as a girl…do you plan to tell her she’s not a real woman because she lacks a uterus? That she’s a man, despite being raised and socialized as female?
          When our children come to us, utterly distressed and feeling trapped in the wrong bodies…what course of action do you folks advocate? Knowing that all of the science supports early intervention as the best route to good outcomes for trans kids…that years passing without intervention corresponds directly with rising suicide rates in transgender youth…do you still advocate denying these kids their identities, and insisting biology rules? Or does saving lives play a factor?

          I get that you’re pissed at men for patriarchy, and all the dickery therein, and you consider transgender women men, and extend your rage to them too…but what about the next generation? Will your justified anger towards patriarchy be directed toward folks raised as girls too, or is it only folks who transitioned after puberty?

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        • Out of curiosity, how do you guys intend on addressing the upcoming generation of transgender folks, who’ve transitioned much earlier than the current generation?blockqute>

          The people inflicting this giant medical experiment on children will be the ones forced to address the coming disaster – i.e. trans activists and their accomplices along with medical people who sanctioned this and inflicted it on healthy bodies.

          Already, there is a significant trickle of detransitoners realizing they’ve been sold a bill of goods. When it becomes a tsunami of adults filled with grief and anger about what was done to them, it will be very, very ugly.

          It is not possible to change one’s biological sex. Encouraging children – who trust adults! – to believe that they can is a cruel and abusive lie. Poor Jazz Jennings is beginning to come face to face with this as he learns that “puberty blockers” prevented him from developing full adult genitalia and creating enough tissue for a faux vagina.

          I read a story awhile back of a young “trans girl” who had been told from the time he was very young that he could be a girl, distraught now that his contemporaries had reach puberty and began menstruating. It was only then that he realized he would never be a woman. Not biologically.

          Beyond the damage caused by telling children the lie that they can change biological sex will be the physical damage done to their bodies – the sterilization, the bone problems from taking Lupron (the most common “puberty blocker”), the unknown consequences of long-term cross-sex hormone use (you are dead wrong about the science – this hasn’t even been studied adequately!), the unknown effects of “blocking” puberty. Other changes happen besides the development of secondary sex characteristics during puberty – in particular, brain development such as neural pruning.

          By far the more humane solution would be good anti-bullying programs in schools and allowing effeminate boys and “tomboy” girls to just be themselves. Let boys wear pretty clothes and grow out their hair; let girls wear “boys clothes” and cut theirs – let people be who they are without harassment. That’s the better world I wish for my grandchildren.

          Liked by 4 people

    • You Re clearly projecting your own’vitriolic spew’ here mate.
      Its you whosay that youre in the wrong body, not us.

      Tberes nothing wrong with your body. Its a male body and that corresponds to you being a bloke.
      Theres no such thing as a lesbian with a penis.
      Your so called hushed tones are seriously creepy given your craziness and threats.
      Fuck off.

      Liked by 11 people

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    • So, I’m the proud owner of 2 X Chromosomes that you felt the need to police at the march. Your anger and bitterness were so apparent. We celebrate our female body. That is not illegal. I know you wish it were. I know you wish for a lot of things that you don’t get. That’s life. Get one.

      Liked by 9 people

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  14. Wanda Normous “A court of dykes found that your tiny crew is USELESS FUCKING TERF GARBAGE and asked me to get your bigoted asses out of the park because, in part, you were making cisdykes uncomfortable too”.

    That’s a boldfaced lie! Of course if you’re talking about you and your faux lesbians, then I guess it could be true. I was there and with the “crew”.

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  15. Oh my, that can’t be real! That dude (whose posts I haven’t read, as I have used up all the time I had allocated for exposing myself to misogyny this week) is the same who followed the lesbians around at that dyke march? Not content with harrassing lesbians in real life, he now invades a feminist blog?

    I don’t know why I am even surprised, but I am. The sheer cheek of such an action is shocking. You’d think after reading that blog post he’d see the error of his ways, but, of course not. Of course. If he were capable of empathy with women, he’d not have harrassed lesbians in the first place.

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    • Come on.. you surely know that men cannot accept or respect womens boundaries.
      Its entirely typical male behaviour.
      Even the misogynist threats and violence is boring.
      Just ignore this wanker and read Valerie Solanis. She explains it so clearly. The vacuous emptiness they cannot fill. The envy of womens energy and passion. The need to allow these men the opportunity to put themselves to death, rather than constructing massive deadly wars which ruin life for everyone..
      The urgent directive for women to stop feeding these mens need for attention.
      *yawn*
      We know this now. Its understood.
      Never be surprised by it again.
      Accept the reality of misogyny in its various forms.
      Expect it.

      Liked by 1 person

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  16. Genuinely confused as to why a woman at a lesbian march would be reprimanded AT ALL for that sign? Are women to be denied freedom of expression now?

    If someone IS offended by message, sign, or post that I make, then I will gladly discuss that issue with them, but I’m not going to second guess what others ‘might’ find offensive! I’m not deliberately antagonistic, I have no racist, or homophobic leanings, but I won’t shy away from discussing ‘controversial’ opinions just in case. If I’m wrong, talk to me, don’t police me.

    Liked by 3 people

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    • Males don’t like it when we talk about our uterus, vagina, anything on our bodies. Males have never liked us to be discussing anything about ourselves or our shared experiences.

      So now, they slap on a dress (or in this case, a speedo) and try to bully us into silence.

      When that doesn’t work, then they say that our bodies are just a social construct that don’t actually exist, and that it’s impossible for us to have shared experiences, because you can’t tell who among us is female, anyway! That males are just as female as we are!

      But that argument quickly falls apart when we talk about abortion access (or lack thereof), menstrual issues, etc.

      To which they again try to silence us by saying mentioning anything female hurts their male feels, transphobia, blah blah. And when we ignore that, then the threats of violence start.

      So it’s the exact same male bullshit, it’s just wearing a dress and calling itself a woman.

      Ladymen are offended by anything that we do. If we attempt to discuss, then we are terfs. The only thing that satisfies a bully male is silence and capitulation. And they get violent when they don’t get their way.

      Liked by 8 people

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  17. Wanda Normous “Actually, that “court of dykes” was the VDM board.” LOL, ok and do you want to now let everyone know that the Board has been taken over by trans identified males. Why did the whole Board resign a couple of years ago? We know your “folks” have taken it over.

    Keep tryin’ bro and enough with the oh-so-manly legal threats.

    Liked by 7 people

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  18. Wanda, you’ve had your opportunity to carry on here about how women-identifying men are the future of the world and how actual women don’t matter. It’s women’s turn to talk. I am backup admin here and I am not approving any more of your belligerent comments.

    Liked by 7 people

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  19. Interesting how the “head of security” was a cishet middle-aged white dude who is a known security RISK. How nice to get policed by the enemy at our own march.

    Liked by 7 people

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  20. These male dominance displays are exhausting. I had heard that Vancouver Dyke March had transition to a Dick march but this was the first I had seen of the dicks. Criminy! I am so sorry he did this to you.

    Liked by 6 people

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  21. You attended an event that was expressly inclusive of transgender women, with signs intended to exclude transgender women, and you are outraged that folks weren’t welcoming?
    It just seems like common sense to me. If you don’t like queer events that include transgender women, don’t attend. Just attend events for folks with uteruses. Or events that cater to folks who share your definition of woman. Otherwise it kinda seems like maybe your not there just to enjoy the event, that maybe you’re intentionally going to events that don’t line up with your values, for the purpose of causing a stir…then it’s hard to believe it was quite the bully/victim scenarioyou describe.

    I don’t attend Black Lives Matters events if I want to talk about my whiteness. I read about the event, who it’s for, who it’s not for, and what sort of behaviour is expected, then only attend if it lines up with my values, and if I can behave in a way that’s respectful of the event, and it’s intent.
    If I need a place where my white voice is welcome, I find one. I don’t go to an event that’s intended for people of colour, demand my right to take up space there, then become outraged when I’m not welcome.

    I get that you value spaces for people who share your anatomy. And you should totally create and enjoy those spaces events. But it’s not fair to attend an event that caters specifically to diversity in the queer community, that is specifically for a diverse range of genders and sexualities, and people who want to be surrounded by that diversity…then announce yourself as someone who doesn’t want to be around diverse experiences, and say you’re being victimized when you’re not welcomed. It’s not fair.
    It wasn’t a uterus-only event that was overtaken by folks without uteruses. It was an event for diversity where exclusivity wasn’t welcome…folks who deny the experience of transgender people were unwelcome there. So you weren’t harassed at your own event. You were unwelcome at an event that wasn’t intended for you. Like I would be, holding a sign about white people at a BLM event.

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    • Huh? What on earth made you think a dyke march wasn’t about women? I mean really? I’m mightily happy to hear you don’t attend black lives matter events, while I probably think you wouldn’t dare to show up in blackface, it’s pretty clear you are happy to show up in woman face and then get all butt hurt when women challenge you on that one. It doesn’t really seem like you could be an ally to anything less than a white male event. Where white males are front and centre and the little ladies should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and catering to your every whim.

      Who died and made you God of who should attend events anyway. I mean really, you say ‘It wasn’t a uterus-only event that was overtaken by folks without uteruses’ You are correct there in the sense that you mean men should be front and centre, and women with uteruses (uterii? 🙂 ) don’t get a voice in their own self determination – Like we’ve never heard that one before. I said it before and I will say it again.

      I really don’t get it. Men who identify as women get so bloody butthurt when they are treated like actual women are. You are waving your dick all over this page trying to get women to conform to your expectations and you think women don’t notice this? Dude, we had this since we were born. Google corrective rape.

      If you really want to identify as a woman you need to accept all the shit that comes with that. It means your voice will fall into the vortex of silence, your body will be imperfect: you’ll be too fat, too thin, too short, too tall. You won’t have made an effort or you have made so much of an effort you are a slut and deserved everything you got. Why don’t you guys get that?????

      Why don’t you get that being a woman is being a second class citizen we don’t get to identify out of no matter how much T we take (I actually have an overabundance of it as a woman which has come with good stuff and bad – bad being multiple surgeries in case you actually care)

      Sorry all for a too lengthy post on this one but I will never centre my feminism on males who say they are women while wanting to preserve all of their male privilege.

      Liked by 8 people

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      • Sorry again but let’s substitute the word black with the word women when looking at this comment.

        Angie says:

        ‘If I need a place where my white voice is welcome, I find one. I don’t go to an event that’s intended for people of colour, demand my right to take up space there, then become outraged when I’m not welcome.’

        Angie, you are so close. if you substituted the words ‘if I need a place where my man’s voice is welcome, I find one (HINT not a dyke march) I don’t go to an event that’s intended for women, demand my right to take up space there, then get outraged when I’m not welcome.’

        You’re not welcome. If you can understand and get it over the line with ‘blacks’ (you words not mine) then is it really too much of a leap to translate that to ‘women’??

        Liked by 7 people

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        • Oh good lord. The best part is where if I disagree with you I must be a man. Is that the standard response? Never learn to communicate civilly, then just pretend your unkindness is justified because patriarchy? Sorry to bum you out, but I’m as much of a cis-woman as the rest of you. You might wanna check IP addresses before you make public accusations…makes you look a little paranoid.
          You have a little victim narrative here about how you went to an event just to celebrate (certainly not to stir up shit! That’s a man thing!) but you were attacked in your own space!!! Gasp!!!! Meanwhile, 10 seconds later, you’re attacking other queer women, who you claim to be speaking for, because they question your politics? I wasn’t even rude! I actually assumed that you were being so unkind to the trans folks here because of the confrontational tone of their comments, and that if I asked questions and inquired about solutions, you’d just be civil…bit of an over estimation on my part. My female socialization included a focus on listening and empathy. I guess you missed that class.

          Aaaannyywwayyy. This is of no consequence to me. I just hadn’t heard of this ‘Terf’ business before, and was curious what your thought and motivations are. But that’s cleared up now. And the rest of it doesn’t matter, cuz trans rights are a thing, the movement is growing, awareness is spreading, kids are being listened to, suicide rates are lowering in kids who get early intervention…basically it’s just super religious folks, Trump, and you guys who are still beating this dead horse. Progress will happen. In 50 years, this’ll just be another civil rights movement, or LGBT rights movement…you guys will just be the extra paragraph…where the white people tried to keep black people down, and the right wing Christians tried to keep the gays down, and the men tried to keep the women down…etc etc. Then it won’t matter anymore.

          Anyway, have fun hating the patriarchy for all its aggression and violence, while you attack any woman who questions you. You should Google ‘crab theory’. Don’t look too hard though, you might see a little internalized misogyny in yourself…you just keep avoiding that. Keep raging at the world instead of healing yourself. 👍

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      • I’m a cis-woman and I didn’t say ‘blacks’, but you just keep gaslighting. Or hey, just get rid of all my comments…just censor the hell out of this place. Civil discussion and learning is for chumps. Just attack and silence woman who think differently than you. That’ll really show the patriarchy! 👍

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        • This may come as a great shock to you, but you are not entitled to anyone else’s audience.

          You don’t like this blog? You don’t like how women comment? Go get your own blog, you can write anything you want, and moderate your own comments as well.

          Liked by 6 people

        • Yah genderskeptic, I work in a school. With mostly other women. I’m familiar with shitty pay and female-dominated work.

          I’m not making any sort of argument that men don’t have privilege in the world. I’m just saying trans women often give that up. And I’m saying that trans folk are often transitioning as kids now, so even socialization arguments are murky. And I get that you folks don’t think trans women are women, or that trans kids should be allowed to transition. I hear that loud and clear. But your opinions don’t change their experiences. And they don’t change the facts and statistics or rates at which trans people experience violence (almost exclusively at the hands of cis men). That’s all I’m saying. You can call them men til the cows come home but they have very, very different experiences. Like the rest of us, violence and the threat of it is at the front and centre of their experience. This is not the case for men. And this is why it’s either accidentally ignorant, or willfully cruel (depending on how ate you are about trans experiences) to insist that they are men and there is no difference. Men don’t walk through parks at night holding keys between their fingers just in case, or holding cell phones with 911 already typed in and their finger above the call button. Women, trans and cis, do. And that’s not even addressing the the complexities of calling for help…Trans women risk additional violence by calling for help when they’re being threatened.

          So you’re right, trans and cis women don’t have identical experiences. But they certainly have very different experiences from cis men. And this ‘you’re not exactly like us so you must be one of them’ thing just adds to violence.

          Mbpandora,
          Yah, I think you have a legitimate point about the name of the march, and I think if i were bothered by it, I’d approach the folks in charge to try to get it changed. It seems reasonable. It’s not representative of the folks marching, and if there are other folks who feel ownership over the word, and if that would help mend some fences…I don’t know. It seems reasonable. That was one of the reasons I originally came here – to see if that’s what had folks so pissed off and if that would be step toward making things less hostile…but I misunderstood the issue. I thought folks were just pissed about language and space, which can be addressed, but they’ve clarified that they’re just pissed that trans people exist, which can’t be addressed (obviously – just ask all the Christians and violent cis men who have always tried to convince trans folk that they aren’t who they say!)

          Anyway. Thanks to the few of you who seem to be open to hearing other voices they disagree with, and experiences not identical to their own.

          I’m not responding to the folks who are just ignoring the content of what I’m saying and insisting I’m a man if I don’t agree with them. I can’t tell if it’s intentional gaslighting or a sincere belief than all women would discount the experiences of trans people…but either way it’s unproductive, and obviously has nothing to do with me.

          It was a mistake to come here. I misunderstood who this community was for, and what it was for. I assumed it was for any/all lesbians to discuss any/all topics related to feminism etc. Admittedly, I didn’t actually read anything or find out first – I just assumed. I had never heard of this TERF movement before. I didn’t know it was a thing. I didn’t know this was a space specifically for you folks. I just hang out with regular queer folks, and mostly I identify with and hang out with queer parents and families, who tend to be a real diverse group…mostly lesbians, a bunch of trans folk, a few gay men. I’ve never identified with folks based on organs or childhood experience, mostly on identities (queer) and adult experiences (parenting). So this is new to me. And doesn’t really resonate with me. So like you say, probably not a place for my voice. And as you’ve said there are lots of regular queer places where my voice is welcome, so it’s dumb for me to be talking in a place where it’s specifically unwelcome. But I guess thanks for the experience. Who knew you guys were a thing. Now I know.

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        • You said above:
           “I actually assumed that you were being so unkind to the trans folks here because of the confrontational tone of their comments…”

          Interesting that you blame women for the “tone” of the male commenters. Always a woman to blame, huh?

          Anyway, a poster was followed at a dyke March by a dude, and dude follows here HERE after following her at the dyke march.

          Oh, yes, that’s right. Males don’t like for us to stand up for ourselves. We are supposed to smile in the face of male harassment. And when we get all uppity, you guys give yourself a lady name and attempt to correct us.

          I mean, the male commenters are so “confrontational”. So glad that you are here to point out how we were asking for it.

          How very original of you.

          Liked by 3 people

  22. In answer to the question up thread on the matter of what women will do about the generation of Trans identified people the Trans advocates and medical surgical industry are creating. We will help them file their lawsuits and help them heal from the damage that was done to them by Trans advocates, of course.

    Liked by 6 people

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  23. This is a funny comment from the transgender advocate above: “I get that you value spaces for people who share your anatomy. And you should totally create and enjoy those spaces events.” Isn’t the whole point that transgender women believe they should be admitted to each and every space for biological women no matter what? All the teams, schools, spaces and places? Weren’t women trying to “create and enjoy” those spaces before the men demanded to be admitted? And in almost every instance, won their case and now are admitted almost everywhere?

    Liked by 7 people

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    • This is typical male reversal and manipulation. They hold opposite views at the same time.

      View 1 is to create our own spaces.

      View 2 is women having women only space is transphobic bigotry. And they use their male legal and government systems to force their way in.

      Males always hold opposite positions simultaneously. It’s built in to patriarchy. This insures that they never lose.

      Liked by 2 people

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      • The weirdest part of all this is that this whole site is designed so you can only hear voices you agree with. It’s like Trump-land. Just casually using unequal power dynamics to block out anything that isn’t your own thoughts regurgitated…so you hear your own thoughts over and over and they just get reinforced until you don’t even feel like other perspectives could possibly have any validity at all. It’s the anti-intellectualism that Americans are so known for…but I don’t even think you guys are American?

        You have a little system here where you silence (censor comments) the voice of any woman who doesn’t say what you want them to, then call it feminism. If a woman disagrees or questions what you’re saying, you just put your hands over your ears, chant ‘man man man! Agree with us or you’re a man!’ Then you pretend silencing yet another woman’s voice is some sort of radical feminism? It’s so bizarre. I can’t figure your motivations. I mean, it’s not sincere feminism…if it were sincere feminism, there’d be some attempt to hear the voices of other women, even if you disagree. Like I’m busting to know your motivations adhd politics, even though they seem really discriminatory to me on the surface. But I’m an actual feminist, so it’s pretty hard to just disregsrd other women’s voices like you’re doing. Your motivation doesn’t even seem to be bringing awareness to your cause, or you’d be trying to persuade folks with reason and compelling arguments, instead of just calling people names and listing the ways you think they suck.
        What is the motivation? My partner is convinced you aren’t even lesbians and that none of this is even real…just random trolls having fun. But I don’t know. Trolls wouldn’t block the comments of the people they’re trolling. They’d be getting their kicks from it all.
        I can’t for the life of me figure out the motivation! Unless it’s just the rush of having the power to silence other women and marinate in the sameness of all the other perspectives around you. Like white people only hanging out with white people so they never have to deal with other people’s realities? But there can’t be *that* many lesbians with a hate on for trans folks. That seems so specific and niche.
        I can’t figure it out…😬

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        • If I allegedly “censor any comments I disagree with” then how do you explain the fact that your comments are being published? I’m seriously tired of your lying and bullshit Angie. I agree with other commenters that you sound like a male MRA. And if you think I’m not really a lesbian when my blog regularly speaks to the lesbian experience then I can only conclude that you are willfully obtuse. I plan to write a post tonight addressing some of your crap, but you are just trolling here and so I won’t allow you to keep commenting much longer.

          Liked by 4 people

        • You have a little system here where you silence (censor comments) the voice of any woman who doesn’t say what you want them to, then call it feminism.

          How in the hell have you been silenced???? You’ve written wall after wall of text that has been PUBLISHED? I commend PurpleSage’s capacity for tolerance and civil discourse.

          And I’m grateful for the comment moderation here. It’s very, very good. Dissenting opinions are allowed so that we may engage with them, but overrunning the blog and trolling is restricted. Thanks Miep and PS!! ❤

          Liked by 5 people

  24. There are probably many trans identified sites where Angie’s voice would be welcome, clearly not this one.
    I agree with you Lilith. Thank you Moderators for your thoughtful moderation.

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  25. Angie said: “You have a little system here where you silence (censor comments) the voice of any woman who doesn’t say what you want them to, then call it feminism.”

    There’s is no silencing. If you want to see silencing go to the echo chamber that is the thread on the Vancouver “dyke” March page. Every comment questioning/discussing that did not fall in line with the male to trans (and it most definitely is the male to trans running this train) narrative was deleted. The whole thread is now self-congratulatory nonsense. The calm and reasoned comments have been removed, with the TiM and ally comments left which make it look as if there was a huge hate-on happening there. So patently false.

    We dykes and women supporters were at a march with our name, ie DYKE. There is no other definition except for the one meaning holding back water.

    Time to change the name of something that is not what it purports to be, and in fact, tells us we are not welcome. Call it whatever you want, but it is NOT a dyke event.

    Liked by 3 people

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