Let’s talk about who’s actually hateful and bigoted here

Well, folks, I am back from a lovely and relaxing trip and ready to address the stinking pile of horseshit that people crapped onto my blog while I was away.

I published a guest post by a woman who was harassed at the Vancouver Dyke March, and her harasser showed up in the comments to continue the harassment. It’s absolutely amazing to me that a harasser can get called out on his harassment and then decide that the appropriate response is to continue harassing. How messed up of a person do you have to be to think that’s a good idea?

Mr. Wanda Normous made a feeble attempt to claim that he hadn’t harassed anyone by reporting that he didn’t use a loud voice when talking to her. However, he admitted in his own words to engaging in the following behaviours:

  • “follow around to counter your hateful message until you took it out of the park with you”
  • “walk or stand immediately outside of your personal space with my terror breasts exposed.”
  • “I used two tools to evict you”

In these quotes, Mr. Normous has admitted to following a lesbian around and being in her personal space with the purpose of “evicting” her from the march. This is clear harassment and intimidation.

Let’s take a moment to discuss who is actually hateful and bigoted in this situation. There is a trans march and a dyke march. No lesbians are on record as saying they do not think there should be a trans march. No lesbians have attended a trans march to intimidate anybody. Lesbians have not tried to take over the board of directors of a trans march and kick out the trans people from the march. This is something that trans people are doing to the dyke march, and it’s happening only in that direction. It’s not going both ways.

Speaking for myself, I have been to a trans march. While I was there I just stood on the sidelines and watched. I did not lecture anyone about what they may or may not put on their sign. I did not select a person whose sign I believed was objectionable and follow them around in order to intimidate them. I do not believe I have the right to dictate to trans people what they put on their signs in their own march, nor do I have a right to harass anyone. I believe it’s acceptable for Pride festivals to include a trans march and for trans people to show their pride about being trans. I do not wish to stand in the way of this.

All the dyke marches in every city that holds them have been taken over by queer politics and are now hostile toward anyone who understands what a woman is and what a lesbian is. Comments from lesbians are deleted from Dyke March Facebook pages in every city and marchers hold signs that say things like “No TERFs” to make it clear that actual female homosexuals are not welcome there. The Dyke Marches now cater exclusively to men and bisexual women who agree with queer politics.

There is no logical reason why trans people need to be centered or even invited at all to a dyke march, since THERE IS A TRANS MARCH. A dyke march should center dykes.

What is happening here is that female homosexuals are being completely kicked out of Pride festivals; we cannot have our own march any more, we cannot even speak about our exclusion without being labelled bigots. It’s not just that trans people wanted their own march, which would have been fine, but they wanted every march to cater exclusively to them.

It is abundantly clear that the actual hatred and bigotry here is coming from trans people and is being directed at lesbians. Claims that lesbians are excluding trans people are complete reversals of the truth.

Speaking of lies, Wanda Normous wrote some real whoppers in the comments on my last post.

He has claimed that  “your desire to exterminate transwomen is plain” and that “you only care about hurting and excluding transwomen” and that “you’re just deciding for folks whether or not they’re women.”

Neither I nor the writer of the guest post gave any indication that we wanted to “exterminate” transwomen. In order for this alleged “desire” to be “plain,” we would have had to express it. This claim is purely a product of Mr. Normous’s imagination. Just for the record, no, I do not wish to exterminate anyone.

Neither I nor the guest writer has an interest in hurting transwomen. As for exclusion, I do think that transwomen should be excluded from the dyke march, however I do not think they should be excluded from the trans march. It’s pretty basic logic that the dyke march is for dykes and the trans march is for trans people. Having a march for each group does not exclude anybody—holding a march for each group is actually inclusion. Questions: If transwomen should be included in the dyke march, then why even have separate marches? Why not just make it one big march? And if trans people should be included in the dyke march, does this also mean that dykes should be included in the trans march? Why or why not?

A sign that says “dyke power is female” does not exclude anybody. It’s true that dykes are female. Stating a simple and neutral fact is not exclusionary.

Last but not least, the third lie mentioned above was “you’re just deciding for folks whether or not they’re women.” Nope! We’re not. Nobody can decide who is a woman and who is not. You’re just born that way. Nature and biology determine whether you’re born male or female. Nobody can decide anything about it. People can’t assign a sex to a baby any more than they can assign fingers or toes to a baby. Women are identifying the difference between male and female, but we cannot possibly decide it from our desire or will—nobody can.

I want to particularly highlight the following phrase from Wanda Normous:

“USELESS FUCKING TERF GARBAGE”

This is hate speech directed toward lesbians. Although Mr. Normous is very concerned that lesbians should not be allowed to represent a uterus on a sign because that is allegedly “hate speech” against him, he has no problem with calling lesbians “useless fucking terf garbage.” It’s very, very clear that Mr. Normous has serious misogyny issues. A misogynist and homophobic man who harasses and intimidates lesbians has absolutely no business attending a dyke march and he should be considered an unsafe person and banned from the event.

In contrast, I am a trans-critical writer who makes an effort not to use unnecessarily antagonistic language when talking about trans people. I never use the slur “tranny” and I even refrain from using the words “mutilate” and “delusional.” I believe in giving people basic courtesy and respect, in order to show that I am engaging honestly with issues and not just trolling. For a transwoman to show up on my blog and use this sort of disrespectful language when I have used no such disrespectful language toward him is very telling. Once again, the hatred and bigotry in this situation are coming from trans people and directed at lesbians; it’s a one-way street.

I did notice that Mr. Normous intentionally “misgendered” me by referring to me with male signifiers. This did not harm me in any way, because using incorrect grammar in a sentence does not cause people harm. I found it mildly amusing, but it really didn’t matter at all. However, I have to note that according to trans ideology, misgendering is “violence,” and so according to Mr. Normous’s own political position, he has committed “violence” toward me. Funny how the “violence” of misgendering only matters when directed toward transwomen; when directed at lesbians it’s not a problem.

The last point I’m going to cover for tonight is this:

“your narrative that women are only as good as their reproductive organs”

This is not at all the narrative that feminists present. It is a bald-faced lie to claim this. It is patriarchy that positions women as only good for reproduction and PIV sex. The entire feminist movement has been based on women’s knowledge that we are more than just wives and mothers and that we can do anything we want. Our work has been based on allowing us to control our reproductive capacity so that we are not reduced to our biological functions and can enter the workforce as men’s equals. To name the female reproductive anatomy does not reduce women to just their reproductive anatomy. Similarly, if I identify that I have ten fingers, that does not reduce me to just fingers, and if I identify that I have two eyes, that does not reduce me to nothing but eyes. This attempt at an argument is beyond pathetic.

Over and over I have witnessed transwomen behaving with masculine socialization (entitlement, dominance, and aggression), making ridiculously misogynist and homophobic statements, engaging in misogynist and homophobic behaviours, and telling bald-faced lies about feminists. I am absolutely not impressed and as long as they behave this way I will not be a political ally toward them. Although I would theoretically support some parts of trans activism, such as gender-neutral toilets and the right to wear the clothing one wants to wear, I cannot ally with people who are this hateful toward my demographic.

Over and over, transwomen demonstrate, with their own words and behaviour, that they do not resemble women in the slightest, and that they are particularly dangerous men. Feminists hardly have to call attention to the fact that transwomen are male; they do it themselves.

50 thoughts on “Let’s talk about who’s actually hateful and bigoted here

  1. Do you agree with the bathrooms of neutral gender? Do you agree that women and girls have to share a bathroom with men (with a camera in their cell phone)? That is no danger at all, (rolleyes).

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  2. Well, I am done meeting male intimidation with kindness.

    Sometimes, I am unclear about if I am welcome to jump into the fray, but god. As a straight woman, I don’t mean to intrude, but I just can’t help it. The vitriol from trans is just astoundingly venomous, and without cause.

    I feel like it’s like an entirely different set of toxic, bully males that I have to fight, now. I am sick of them equating abortion rights with trans surgery. There’s one on the detransitioning article at FC arguing that. It’s straight up offensive.

    BTW, I am hekate Jayne on disqus. I don’t assume you know me, or anything, but I have talked with you a time or two. Just for full disclosure.

    Liked by 7 people

    • The whole thing is complicated but to a certain extent, what’s going on here is a bunch of men’s rights activists, at least some or most of whom are autogynephiles, trolling gender. A lot of people call themselves trans and these guys are not all of them. But they sure are doing a great job of giving the whole thing a bad name. Them and predatory medicine and batshit legislation.

      Liked by 9 people

      • I don’t understand why radfems would touch the Bailey-Blanchard-Lawrence theory with a ten-foot pole. It insinuates that “homosexual transsexuals” are born prostitutes, ignoring coercion, discrimination, and the rest.

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        • I think it’s pretty clear that some men sexually fetishize the idea of themselves as being women. These guys jacking off in their sister’s underwear are not poor discriminated-against homosexual transsexuals. Which is not to say homosexual transsexuals don’t exist, or aren’t discriminated against.

          It’s obvious why people in the trans lobby don’t want to admit any of these behaviors ever constitute fetishes. There is more money in “gender identity,” and it sounds more respectable. However, it is a real problem for your above-mentioned homosexual transsexuals, the failure to sort out the trolls and guys who get off on boundary violations from garden-variety gender-benders. And saying you are really a woman when you are actually a man is a form of boundary transgression, especially when you use it to get access to women and then sexually act out, This does happen, theory or no theory. I’m not going to ignore that just because Blanchard had some bigoted views. He observed what he did through the filter of his own homophobia. Gay men who wear makeup and women’s clothing aren’t particularly likely to be “naturally” prostituting themselves or doing themselves with their sister’s lingerie, either. That would be an example of a bigoted point of view. But some male transsexuals, especially economically disadvanted ones, such as Black men, do get caught up in prostitution, and some guys who like to wear lady-face are bad actors.

          Liked by 2 people

        • Their theory is that every trans woman either transitions because of “hsts,” or because of “agp.”

          I know dysphoria can lead to embodiment fantasies, partly reversing the B-B-L theory. I shouldn’t speculate about some of the other fantasies out there.

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        • I wish you’d type out words instead of saying “hsts” and “agp.”
          Anyway, I agree with Blanchard’s theory that most transwomen are heterosexual male autogynephiles and that a few of them are homosexual men. Judging by what I have observed this seems true.

          Liked by 1 person

        • The distinction between engaging in body mods out of sexual fetishism and doing it out of discomfort with one’s coercively gendered socially expected role is important here. That was my original point, that “transgender” has no consistent meaning. It’s presented as some kind of invisible material reality when it is nothing but a morphing label for various proclivities and personalities. A lot of objection to codifying “transgender” as a protected class is based on this problem. Introducing these sorts of vagaries into the legal system is a recipe for disaster.

          Liked by 2 people

        • Blanchards work doesn’t prove anyone is born trans or not, it evidences the motivations and demographics of trans people, which is useful information. The “born this way” thing is rightly called a narrative in Blanchards work.

          Liked by 1 person

  3. Does anyone have a Link to an analysis of the Vancouver takeover of the resource center and dyke march? Was the woman’s library done in response? Are there any intact dyke organizations left? Note. This may have well have happened in my town, actually when no one was watching.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I sent the Women’s Library money after all that brouhaha before they moved to another venue. They recently sent me a thank you note that sounded pretty upbeat about their progress ❤️❤️❤️

      Liked by 6 people

      • I was sending them money through Patreon, but they announced a few weeks ago that they were closing and have since had a big sale of the books. I’m heartbroken and heartsick about it, especially hearing people parroting bullshit on Facebook about how they had “transphobic policies”. Name one, I said to the woman who put that forward, and of course she couldn’t. The only thing remotely “transphobic” was the involvement of one of the founders of Rape Relief, which fought in court to reject the lawsuit brought by a transwoman who wanted to do front-line counselling with survivors of male violence (don’t even get me fucking started). I mean, who cares if a desperately needed service for women is financially ruined because of one person’s flipping ego issues? Who cares if the Women’s Library is forced to close because the TRAs went out and lobbied and pressured everyone they could find in order to destroy the library’s support? Who needs a women’s library when trans egos are at stake? Who needs Michfest? Who needs the Dykemarch?All of these things must be destroyed– and by people who say that they are women and care about women’s things. As fucking if.

        Sorry. I’m still mourning.

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  4. A lot of lgb and/or t people are autistic. Imagine a pride event including an accessible autistic march. It wouldn’t be reasonable to tell autistic people not to attend lesbian and/or gay marches because “that’s your march,” and I don’t think it’s reasonable to tell trans people that either. It would be more internally consistent to try to encourage more trans people to mostly attend the bi march, regardless of how we identify.

    I’m kinda wound up, because I’m a bashing survivor and try to oppose Naziism. I’m not abled enough to protest Naziism. Right now, bothsiderists are telling everyone that all of us are just as violent as the Nazis, and Trumpists are saying we’re more violent. It’s … frustrating and distracting.

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      • Both can affect our experiences of socialization, gender, and sexuality. Both can expose us to abuse. Either way, I don’t see how one march would be a reason to exclude people from another.

        If I agreed that I were a bisexual man instead of a lesbian woman, and if I were able to get to a march, I do see how it would be a reason to go to the bi march instead.

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      • There is a lot of research out there showing that autism is associated with claiming a transgender identity. (Similarly, narcissism and schizophrenia are also statistically associated with transgender identity.) These are not, that I have seen in the literature, associated with being gay or lesbian.

        Liked by 1 person

        • The way I interpret that is that with autism spectrum people, social conditioning does not set as well, leaving them more likely to feel like misfits, and thus vulnerable to this ideology.

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        • If you look at “transgender identity” as not a material reality, but a belief system that people are socially groomed into when they do not conform to gender norms, there could be associations with all sorts of nonconforming personalities and traits, including homosexuality and autism. This does not mean these two latter are linked, other than by this association.

          These are both social categories of people who are discriminated against for being nonconforming, so it wouldn’t surprise me if there is also an elevated degree of PTSD for either, as classes. But, again, there would be nothing innate about such an association, it’s all socially created.

          Liked by 1 person

    • When we are surrounded by white male dominance displays it is not unusual for someone to come and tell us that we would be more reasonable if we would just make an exception for these men because they really are not like those other men.
      White heterosexual males are not Dykes no matter if they are autistic or not. You are bringing an individual argument to a discussion that needs to be a class analysis.

      Liked by 6 people

  5. Pingback: Let’s talk about who’s actually hateful and bigoted here | Easilyriled's Blog

  6. I’m sorry to hear your Dyke March is going away. That is very disappointing. But with this mini feud, I think the big thing missing is that trans people can also be lesbians because gender and sexuality are two different things. With that said, I would see no problem with trans lesbians marching in the dyke march. I also don’t think it’s fair to say all trans people are anti lesbians. Based on the quotes you’ve shared, this trans person has said some hateful things towards lesbians but I don’t think this person is the poster child for all trans people. Thanks for sharing and I hope they bring back the Dyke March in your area! – Em

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        • I did not mean to disrespect you or this space and I apologize if it came off that way. When I read that you have attended a trans march, I made an assumption that you were there in a place of support and that you were familiar with the differences between a trans woman and a trans man. I know this can be confusing at first so I thought you were learning and needed some help. That was my mistake.

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        • A big problem that comes up has to do with sexual orientation, which is not an abstraction or an identity. Women are attracted to other women based on their physical sexual biology, not their perceived identity. Thus lesbians may be attracted to women who identify as women, or sometimes women who identify as men, but they are never attracted to men, no matter how the man identifies. Thus men have no place in a lesbian march. It’s intrusive.

          Liked by 4 people

        • The problem here is that people cannot change sex. Every cell in your body reflects your actual biological sex, and cosmetic genital surgery does not change that. Suggesting that cosmetic genital surgery and taking hormones makes a man a woman, truly does reduce us to hormones and a hole. The idea that you can make a woman out of a man with chemicals and a scalpel is both ridiculous and deeply offensive.

          Liked by 5 people

        • Additionally, there are plenty of men who say they “identify” as women who never have surgery.

          The whole concept of gender identity works like a kind of pseudoreligion, that people’s souls or personalities have a sex and can be in the wrong-sexed body. You cannot be born in the wrong body. You are your body.

          Liked by 5 people

        • Uh, nope.

          Lesbian is a sexual orientation. Based on factual, actual biological sex.

          Women are allowed to be attracted to only other women. And a penis is a male sex organ. Lesbians are not attracted to male bodies. I understand that males don’t like that.

          I can’t believe that I have to explain what women are allowed to do. It’s astoundingly pathetic that some people are so steeped in misogyny that they can’t understand the most basic of rights.

          Liked by 6 people

  7. aquestinqueerparenting on August 16, 2017 at 7:24 pm said:

    “I did not mean to disrespect you or this space and I apologize if it came off that way.”
    BS! You are evangelizing for a male dominance cult that claims that words mean whatever you say they mean. Lesbians are homosexuals not homogenderals, and with a name like yours it is ridiculous to pretend that you are ignorant of this fact.

    Liked by 6 people

  8. “your desire to exterminate transwomen is plain” and that “you only care about hurting and excluding transwomen” and that “you’re just deciding for folks whether or not they’re women.”

    translates to:

    YOUR DESIRE TO HAVE A SPACE FO YOUR OWN IS PlAIN…AND THREATENING! YOUR INDEPENDENCE FROM MEN IS THREATENING! I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU’D HAVE THE GALL TO TELL MEN YOU DON’T WANT THEM IN YOUR SPACE!

    The misogyny in his words is PLAIN! HE only cares about hurting and erasing women!

    This kind of crap enrages me to no end.

    Liked by 4 people

  9. Mr. Normous knows that as a male, merely following a woman around is intimidating in itself, without raising his voice. He admits as much that he expected it to be effective enough to scare her out of the march. Whereas another woman could not be certain that such behavior would be intimidating rather than just annoying. Basically, he is flashing his male dominance here. He instintively knows he has it.

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  10. It’s actually “Wanda Normous” who is obsessed with reproductive organs–in particular, the reproductive organ that causes rape, impregnation and terror, his very own “Wand Enormous”! Sounds like just the sort you ‘d want in a bathroom, huh?!

    Third wave funfems are batshit. Anyone who is so obsessed with their peen that they name themselves after it is pretty much the furthest thing from womanhood or femaleness imaginable. I think lots of these men are trolling the funfems.

    I have respect for actual transsexuals with genital dysphoria. These people drew a bad hand and are trying to live quietly as their chosen SEX, not screaming about their “female” rape tool or “male” trauma site. They have been shouted out of the trans “movement” for saying logical things like “No female-born lesbian would want to get PIV’d, and no actual trans woman would ever want to use that part anyway and would not even leave it uncovered when with an (almost always bisexual) partner” OR “no trans man would ever want to be PIV’d, PIA’d, or impregnated so there is no such thing as a ‘pregnant man’ or ‘front hole sex’. Actual trans men’s worst nightmare is penetration and only engage sexually (with an almost always bisexual partner) the way a “stone butch” would, although unlike stone butches, who are lesbians, trans men may want to use their prosthetic with birth males as well as (or instead of) born females. ” .

    I feel like “Wanda Normous” and all of the other penis -glorifying “trans women” and “proudly menstruating” ‘trans men’ (WTF, no non gender dysphoric female likes menstruation, much less a born female who is transsexual) of their ilk are agent provocateurs seeking to sow division between feminists and trans, LGBTs and feminists, LGB’s and trans, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if, years or decades later, ‘Wanda Normous’ and other similar ‘transwomen’ as well as whatever desperate-for-approval and probably, sadly, sexually abused “happily front hole porked, period prince, placenta He-Man” ‘transwomen’ are revealed to be alt.right assholes taking the piss joined by their deluded “sex pozzie” fauxminist “trans boyfriends”, who never cottoned on that the whole thing was a joke. After all, trans female-borns are often autistic.

    Actual transsexuals are ON YOUR SIDE. I personally believe that the less dicks in the world, the better, and radical feminism should have encouraged SRS. Also, some born females DON’T WANT to reproduce, use those parts sexually, and therefore see NO POINT in having periods, breasts, or hip and ass fat. This is not “self hating”, because the only ones who see vaginal sex, babymaking, bleeding, breasts, hips, and ass as important parts of a female born human are males and women who push this form of structural functionalism. Why is it “mutilating” for EITHER a butch lesbian or a passing trans man to get rid of parts that have nothing to do with one’s sense of self or sexual pleasure, and only give pleasure to males and babies? This is why radfem-leaning female born transsexuals find it hard to join your side–the only people who have reason to see us as “mutilated” are those who see tits, hips, ass, babymaker and penetrable parts, and softer flesh as of value for exploitation. These people are usually males or hetero unfeminist females. If we are always “still female”, yet we are “mutilated”, you are necessarily suggesting that a female existing without fuckable, grabbable, impregnable, male-titillating parts is LESS THAN, as is a born male without a rape tool, impregnating sperm-holders, and brute testosterone -forged muscles and sinew.

    The way forward is to recognize a third and fourth sex, ie dysphoric born females who feel better with testosterone therapy and removal/non-use of these parts, and dysphoric born males who disavow, surgically and otherwise, the penis and normative male testosterone levels. This meshes seamlessly with radical feminist belief that gender is a system of dominance and submission without ignoring the fact that the material embodiment justifying gender is SEXED DIFFERENCE. In this schema, the third and fourth sex are allies to radical feminism, where silly gendertrenders like “Mia Peenus” , “Yujie Rection”, “Ida Scrooder” and all the rest of the (invariably over six feet and violent, hardly the poor blushing violets who get murdered every time a radfem breathes) “transwomen” are, like all other males, are only after using born female bodies for rape, impregnation, labor, scapegoating, demonization, or just plain laffs.

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