The peak trans questions

Way back when I wrote the following questions which are designed to make anyone reach peak trans.

  • If there is nothing distinguishing trans women from other women then why are we calling some women trans? How do we know which women to call “trans” if there is no way to tell them apart?
  • Assuming that transgender means transitioning from one gender to the other, then what did trans women transition from? If they were born women and have always been women then why did they need to transition?
  • Do you think we need a word that describes the set of all adult humans who can produce ova and bear young? Why or why not? If so, what do you think this word should be?
  • Can you define the word ‘woman’ without using the word in the definition? (i.e. without using a circular definition.)

To fully understand these questions, it’s a good idea to read my post A linguistic analysis of ‘woman.

For the very first time, I’ve had a commenter attempt to answer the questions. Hopefully she’ll come back and continue the conversation. Here’s her answers:

“1. What distinguishes Trans women from other women are their chromosomes (trans women posses a Y chromosome) and/or genitalia and other body organs, and possibly hormone levels, though changes to these things are often made. SEX may be ambiguous, as they chromosomes can never change, but genitalia and hormone levels are often altered. However, the trans woman’s GENDER was always, or at some point became female, as GENDER is what you identify as, while SEX is based on physiological factors. Even if there is no hormone replacement/sex reassignment surgery, ect, the GENDER is still female.
2. They were born or began to identify at some point as women, but the SEX they were born with was male. The GENDER was always…or for a long time had been female, even though SEX they were born with was male. Their GENDER did not match their SEX.
There are different ways to transition. Some hide the fact that the GENDER they identify with is different from the one they are treated as, and so they are transitioning from being addressed/ referred to as a man to being addressed/referred to as a woman. They are transitioning from one GENDER IDENTITY to another.
Others choose to have their SEX (physiological factors) match their gender as closely as is possible with the current science/medical advances, so they undergo sex reassignment surgery and/or hormone replacement therapy so they can have no, or less body dysphoria, or feelings of distress that their physiological characteristics do not match their gender identity. These women are transitioning, medically, from one body type to another.
3.No, we do not need a word for that, in my opinion, and we don’t have one. The words female and woman are not defined that way, as some females/women have hysterectomies or are infertile, thus they do not produce ova and cannot bear young. Also, women who go through menopause also do not this definition, but are still called women/females. The word we use for this is actually is a combination of words :”fertile female” or “woman who is capable of physical reproduction”.
We do have words for different combinations of chromosomes someone possesses, such as XX, XY, and others that fall under the intersex category. XX is often referred to as female and XY male, with other combinations being referred to as intersex, but the words male and female are also used to refer to gender identity, which may not match chromosome type. I think it is best just to refer to the chromosome combinations as XX, XY, ect.
4. A type of gender identity. Members of this gender identity are referred to by the pronouns she/her/herself/hers.”

So I have some answers to these answers.

  1. So you say trans women have different chromosomes and genitals. What’s different about trans women’s genitals, exactly? Also, you say that sex is based on physiological factors. So you do in fact know what biological sex is, yes? So what biological sex are trans women?
  2. Oh, look! In the answer for number two you admit that trans women are born the male sex. So you do, in fact, know that trans women are biologically male.

This makes me wonder something. Are you aware that many trans women claim that they’ve always been female, and have female bodies even without medical transition, and their penises are female penises. What do you think of that? If someone’s gender identity is female, doesn’t it follow that his body is female, too, regardless of what genitals he has? Why or why not? Also, you keep using the words “gender identity.” Can you define what that is?

3. In the answer to number 3, you say that XY chromosome is male. You also said in question 1 that trans women have the Y chromosome. So that means trans women are male, right?

The point of the third question is to get you to think about the female sex class. Approximately half of all humans have bodies that are biologically set up to produce ova and bear young during their reproductive years. These bodies are named female, whether in humans or other mammals. Female is the egg-bearing member of sexually dimorphic species of all kinds. Young or old females who are currently not menstruating or reproducing are still female of course—they still have the entire female reproductive system, it’s just not currently in use. Women who for medical reasons cannot menstruate or reproduce are still female as well—they have bodies that would produce ova and bear young if it weren’t for their medical problem. All these people with the female biological system are called women and girls. We are treated a certain way by society because of our reproductive capacity. Do you think it’s useful to talk about this group of humans? So far you have said no. Do you really think there is no reason we need to talk about the female sex class? You don’t see any social issues that affect females specifically?

4. You say that the definition of ‘woman’ is “A type of gender identity. Members of this gender identity are referred to by the pronouns she/her/herself/hers.” Don’t you think there is anything missing from this definition? When I read this I don’t learn anything about what a woman is. If I’m trying to choose a gender identity, how do I know if I should choose woman? I need to know what woman is before I know if I am one. So describe to me the characteristics of this gender identity called woman, so I know if I should identify with it or not. What’s a woman? If people identify with this concept then they should be able to describe it, right? There should be characteristics?

(I know the answers to everything I’ve just asked, of course. This is all an exercise in reaching peak trans.)

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21 thoughts on “The peak trans questions

  1. I think a good question to ask is what are the differences between men and women, without using “feelings” or personal “identity”? List some distinguishing features of a female gender identity and a male gender identity, how do these identities manifest themselves in every day lived life (cannot include clothing). Remember to be universal, as all cultures of the world are patriarchal and all cultures have differing understanding of female and male gender norms and varying degrees of punishment when they are transgressed.

    What are men? What is the universally shared feature of men?
    What are women? What is the universally shared feature of women?

    One answer – XX, XY. Ova, Sperm.

    So-
    “(trans women posses a Y chromosome)”
    Then logically they are men

    Liked by 2 people

  2. You know we keep.on these circular rides over and over again. After 25 years of this bullshit I AM UTTERLY DONE WITH IT. Those who.posess or possessed a flesh penis from.birth are MALE. Those whom posess a Vulva/Yoni from birth are FEMALE.

    With very few exceptions males (original penis holders) have XY chromosomes, or some version.of Y in their DNA. Plus as many years of MALE PRIVILEGE as they retained said penis and presented as male.

    With very few exceptions females (original Vulva/Yoni holders) have XX chromosomes in their DNA.

    Gendery is not a binary but a hierarchy with males on top.running a worldwide Patriarchy with males in charge. Females are second class below males on this hierarchy worldwide.

    It does not matter if those males choose to chop off their penises or not, dress in female clothing or imitate females in anyway. It is all cosmetic alteration to their bodies. One cannot change sex, only the outward appearance of such.

    And in this system of worldwide Patriarchy females will always be underneath them, unless extremely convincingly through surgery, hormones and dress females appear cosmetically male. But that house of cards can fall if she is discovered to be biologically female.

    A woman.is an adult Female. A man is an adult male. That is the simplest definition any 6 year old can.understand.

    Anything beyond that is a mere imitation/speculation/intellectualMANipulative mind bending.
    -FeistyAmazon

    Liked by 2 people

  3. To add to the discussion from DGR:

    “It’s become popular in some activist circles to embrace notions from postmodernism, and that includes the idea that gender is somehow a binary. Gender is not a binary. It is a hierarchy. It is global in its reach, it is sadistic in its practice, and it is murderous in its completion. Just like race, and just like class. Gender demarcates the geopolitical boundaries of patriarchy—which is to say, it divides us in half. That half is not horizontal—it is vertical. And in case you missed this part, men are always on top.”

    -Lierre Keith, Radfem Reboot 2012

    Liked by 1 person

  4. It makes me sad to hear trans women say that we don’t need a word for people born with presumed female reproductive capacity. Where is there room for dialogue, with people who deny your right to name yourself and your oppression?

    Liked by 1 person

        • The fucked up thing is I will talk to these people on different blogs. On Blog A I will repeat that mantra, and they say that I am a ‘troll’ who is ‘misrepresenting’ trans people and trying to make fun of them.

          Yet I will meet the same people on Blog B, and if I disagree that ‘sex is a social construct’ I get accused of being a bigot.

          Oh, and the fact that intersex people exist = sex is a social construct and genitals, chromosomes etc are irrelevant

          This all by the same people who worry a lot about rape culture and how biological males can’t stop raping. They talk a lot about rape on college campuses then they want to make every facility gender neutral because ‘anyone who worries about rape is just fearmongering’

          JUST

          WHAT THE FUCK

          Liked by 3 people

        • Yes! And the intersex argument gets my goat. Intersex folks are a rather rare exception and are not gender neutral individuals. Most of us are also sexed quite clearly as we develop it’s just that what category to stick us in isn’t that clear at birth.

          I am a woman because at 13 I entered womanhood with the arrival of Aunt Flow. At 22 I gave birth to a baby, though I did not produce milk or ever really develop breasts.

          To me what makes me a woman as well is that I lived the social experience of being female. I had baby dolls and was told toy cars were for boys. I was expected to act like a girl and cross my legs and keep my shirt on. I faced unwanted advances of males. I faced the slut\prude delimma that all young women face while men never experience this. Society told me it was all about my body not my mind. I was supposed to be married by 18. (Mom actually thought 16 and tried to arrange that marriage ) lack of interest in males was assumed to be something wrong with me.

          Getting caught with issues of playboy in my closet was a huge family drama that resulted in my mom going out and buying me a playgirl magazine… And seeing the disgust on my face at seeing peni.

          But I never thought “I feel like a man”. I never thought ” I feel like a woman ” and I never thought “I feel like a butch dyke “. Those ideas just seem meaningless.

          However I did think ” fuck this making myself look like others want me to ”

          And that to me is the cringe factor with the whole trans thing. It is very much an expression of the old beauty standards.. And in the extreem. Instead of being at home in your skin and at peace with yourself it is about being for others and this is witnessed by the prevalence of needing to pass. Not that all trans identified folks are caught up with that.

          And what happened to the left cringe factor on body mutilation? There was a time I considered getting some boobs and folks struggled with me over that but now when a guy gets boobs… Same operation that signifies the same issues of not accepting yourself and wanting to fit beauty standards … Everyone goes into orgasmic praise about how great he looks! No one is like dude you know what can go wrong with those things ?

          Which brings me to the way a whole market of products has developed for trans… Yep.. The beauty industry is in full swing making as much buck as it can make…

          To irriterate… Folks need to stfu using an intersex minority to justify trans.

          Liked by 1 person

  5. Pingback: The peak trans questions – Critiquing Transgender Doctrine & Gender Identity Politics

  6. It seems to me like the gender arguments are very heavily reliant upon obfuscation. Parsing and whittling away at definitions to try to create and exploit loopholes. But reality is reality and underneath it all we all know the difference between men and women.

    If a group of armed extremists or a cartel were to burst into a room full of people and shout “Men to the left, women to the right! Move now or we’ll shoot you!” there is not a single person (who wants to live) who would be seriously actually confused about which way they should go.

    That’s not some sort of sick thought game, either. Terrorists and cartels do exactly such things and for terrible reasons that are related to the entire history of shitty things men do to men and men do to women.

    There is no actual confusion.

    Like

  7. An opinion that makes me very unpopular:
    A transwoman can never be a woman on the simple fact that he can never gain the socially constitutive experience of transversing birth to menstration as a female and incorporating that lived experience as part of their self identity . however, they have their own experience of transversing life as a male that wishes he were female and the negative experience that goes with that much like an effeminate gay male.

    Like

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