No one will admit it’s gay conversion therapy

An article from the Toronto Star talks about the controversy surrounding the recent firing of Ken Zucker and the shutting down of Toronto’s Gender Identity Clinic. The issue was that Zucker did not act fast enough to put young children on hormones and prepare them to be lifetime medical patients—his approach was to wait and see how the children will feel when they are older. This is because he knows that many children with gender dysphoria will not grow up to be trans, many will grow up to be gays or lesbians and will be happy with their birth sex. The trans activists are furious that Zucker does not want to transition young children the second they express a desire to be the opposite sex, and believe that by not immediately transitioning children he is practicing “conversion therapy.” Trans activists do not seem to give a shit that they are practicing gay conversion therapy—turning gay and lesbian youth into artificially created members of the opposite sex so they will appear as gender-conforming heterosexuals, when they are still too young to have had a romantic relationship or to develop an identity as gay or lesbian.

This article opens with a short interview with an 18 year old woman who is “gender-fluid” and who says she would have transitioned as a child if she could have. However, check this out:

“I actually have thought of transitioning from female to male several times, especially when I was younger,” she said.

“If I had been presented with an opportunity to change my gender when I was younger, I would have taken it and I’m sure I would have no regrets.”

Still, she doesn’t plan to transition in the future. “I’m quite comfortable with the way I am currently.”

So even though she would have transitioned if she could have, she is quite comfortable now, in her natural body, without transitioning.That leads me to wonder, how could she be sure she wouldn’t have regretted transition, if she’s comfortable in her body now? This is a major contradiction. Surely someone who is comfortable in her body wouldn’t want to have healthy body parts surgically removed, be sterilized, and face a lifetime of taking artificial hormones that will affect her health?

The article names the two approaches to supporting gender dysphoric children that are the subject of the controversy. One is the “wait and see” model in which transition is delayed until puberty, and the other is the “gender-affirmative” model which transitions children immediately. Dr. Tom Mazur, an associate clinical professor of psychiatry and pediatrics at the University at Buffalo, is quoted as saying that “The majority of these children who come in will not persist as gender-dysphoric,” often transitioning into gay or lesbian identities. 

Isn’t this pretty important? Why do the trans activists want all children with gender dysphoria to transition immediately when we know that lots of them will grow into gay and lesbian adults? Are they against “conversion therapy” or not? It seems to me that they’re all for it.

“Debra Soh, a PhD candidate in psychology at York University specializing in sexual neuroscience, says that “it doesn’t make sense for us to be implementing these changes so early.

“For a young child, it’s a lot to take on. It’s a big decision to make.”

Social transitioning — “difficult to de-transition from,” says Soh — sees children expressing their gender through their clothes, name, hairstyle, activities and friend groups.”

It sure doesn’t make sense to make huge, life-altering decisions about young children! When “gender” is actually a style that kids express through their hairstyle and clothing, something that kids have always done, why does it need to be medicalized? Let them have their haircuts and outfits, this does not mean that they need surgery and hormones.

“Listen to what exactly your child seems to be saying. “If a little boy isn’t allowed to play with girls’ toys, maybe that’s where the distress is coming from.”

DUH. If a boy is not being allowed to play with his favourite toys because adults have arbitrarily decided those toys are only for girls, of course he’s going to feel distress! That doesn’t mean he needs surgery! The fucking adults here need to get a fucking clue.

A similar article in the Globe and Mail was published on the same day, this one a bit longer, adding some interesting points to the discussion.

“By closing the clinic, CAMH also walked away from a $1-million grant that had been awarded to Dr. Zucker and his team to study the effect of hormone blockers on teenagers. Those grants, in a country stingy with research dollars, are not easy to get.”

So trans activists got this clinic closed right after a grant was awarded to study the effects of hormone blockers on teenagers. It seems to me that this would be some really good information to have, seeing as they are pushing the use of hormones on young children without even knowing the effects.

“In the transgender community, Dr. Zucker’s dismissal was celebrated – he had long been controversial for research suggesting children should be steered away from becoming transgender adults.”

Yes, he does think that children should be steered away from becoming transgender adults, and remember why? Because lots of these children will grow up to become happy gays and lesbians who are comfortable in their natural bodies. This is, in fact, a positive outcome. The trans activists don’t seem to think so. I diagnose homophobia.

“An external report that contributed to his dismissal has since been revealed to contain errors, including a false allegation that Dr. Zucker insulted a patient. CAMH yanked it from the hospital’s website and apologized for the mistake, but its decision stands.”

So the trans activists who shut down the clinic lied in their report. Nice.

“In a statement to The Globe and Mail, CAMH said the review was not the only factor behind the closing and that “We are moving forward to engage with the community to determine the future of our service.”

Does it sound to anyone else like this sentence really says “We’ve learned that we have to do whatever the trans activists tell us to do regardless of what the research says”?

A woman named Carol is interviewed, whose son received treatment at the Gender Identity Clinic before it was shut down.

“When Carol’s eldest son was four years old, he would dream he was a girl and sob when he woke up as a boy. Around the same time, two ten-year-old kids threw him off the monkey bars when they saw him playing with a Barbie.”

She took her son to the gender identity clinic and Dr. Zucker developed a plan for him.

“As Dr. Zucker explained it to Carol, his theory was to help kids value the “body they have.” In that case, it meant helping her son see that “you may want to be a girl, but it’s okay to be a boy.” Carol says she and her husband had only one agenda for their son: “It was 100 per cent about his happiness.”

Guess what? At the time of the writing of this story, Carol’s son is now a happy gay teen.

“Carol believes that Dr. Zucker’s advice worked for her son, who is now a popular gay 13-year-old. He doesn’t talk about wanting to be a girl any more, though Carol says they are careful not assume his path is set. “The biggest and most important thing I hold on to as a mother, was that when he was young, he would never talk about his future, never talk about himself as an adult.” Now, she says, he is making plans. “This was a healthy outcome for us.” She gives Dr. Zucker the credit: “I know the positive impact his therapy had on the culture of our family.””

What a happy outcome! Both doctor and parents were non-homophobic and supported their gay son until he was able to become happy with himself. The trans activists would have put him on Lupron and would have convinced him that he needs to pass as a girl or die, which would have given him way more distress.

I don’t think I entirely agree with Dr. Zucker because he seems to have sometimes prescribed reducing a kid’s gender-non-conformity in order to help him fit in. In one case this led to a mother doing something completely bizarre:

“One mother interviewed for the story described burying a favourite Barbie in a shoebox in the backyard, while her son watched.”

This is fucked up. I remember when I was a kid and I had favourite toys that sometimes “disappeared” because my parents had decided they needed to be thrown out, and it made me really sad. Watching my mother ceremoniously bury a toy in the backyard like it was a pet that died would have been horrifying and would have given me horrible feelings for years. What a weird thing to do to a kid.

Kids should be able to play with any toys they enjoy. Boys can play with dolls if they want. It’s amazing that such terrible things happen in this world: war, famine, poverty, human trafficking, environmental destruction, but what people are really worried about is boys playing with dolls. How is that even a problem??

This article interviews another mother whose son wanted to be a girl. They tried the “wait and see” approach with him, too, but his distress didn’t go away. He did come out as gay at 13, but later came out as a trans girl at age 14. He insisted upon beginning transition. I cannot say whether this young man is just gay and struggling with it a lot, or if he is someone who truly would be better off transitioning. But I do know that 14 is very young, and I know that teenagers go through many identities before they reach adulthood. I came out as bisexual at 14, and then I convinced myself that I was straight for a few years, and then started to identify as lesbian around 23, an identity that has stuck with me and feels very comfortable now. This boy who is struggling might finally reconcile with being a gay man when he is an adult, and if he is medically transitioned, he may be sterilized and have had his genitals removed by the time he can even come to terms with being a feminine gay man.

GLBT organizations are no longer trying to make the world safer for gender-non-conforming and feminine gay men—instead they are promoting transgenderism. These organisations have changed from being pro-gay to being homophobic. We’re not allowed to question this, or else we’ll be transphobic bigots who are causing teens to die. It’s time for adult lesbians and gays to fight back against gay conversion therapy, on behalf of the next generation.


30 thoughts on “No one will admit it’s gay conversion therapy

  1. I agree. You explain the issue so well. I recently struggled to explain the gay conversion therapy issue with transing kids to a person completely unfamiliar with that line of reasoning. So many LGBs just accept the T unquestioningly. They get confused when criticism of the T comes from folks not on the religious far right. I wish you would publish this essay in a large national or international gay and lesbian publication. LGBs— drop the T!

    Liked by 8 people

    • “Large national or international gay and lesbian publications” will never publish essays like this because they are run and/or controlled by transactivists. Critical comments are censored. LGBTQ has become more homophobic than the general public, and that’s really saying something.

      Ultimately, we need to start all over again. The gay guy that started the drop the T petition has a website that is for *actual* LGB, and, although it’s more “G” than anything, gender critical comments are not censored & I’m sure that he would welcome well thought-out articles by Lesbians. ( )

      Liked by 4 people

  2. It begs the question, why do we NEED these narrow gender norms? Who do they benefit? Who do they hurt? People have always seemed more accepting of ladies in short hair and pants but heaven forbid a man wear makeup or a dress.

    Why does the bending or crossing of gender norms threaten so many? Could it be because these norms are part of the shaky foundation on which patriarchy is built? Without which it might come crumbling down? Well, then I say, “Fuck the patriarchy! Gentlemen, wear dresses, express your vulnerability and let’s bring down this antiquated establishment!”

    Liked by 3 people

  3. Sometimes, it scares the hell out of me, the scary experiments on kids– if I had known about this, if kids I knew were doing this, at 16, I might have gotten into my head seriously that I was a transguy. No matter that I was very free to explore whatever I wanted “boy” label or no, or that my mother was very much gender-fuck-you.

    But it’s scary that kids are doing this SO YOUNG. I’m worried about my daughter. Am I going to have a meeting with the principal and school nurse when she’s 8 because they think she might want to be a boy because she…what? Likes dinosaurs and space? Holy shit. And then, I think about where we’re gonna be with this in a few years. Will they take your children away and charge you with abuse and neglect ( or literal attempted murder) because hell no hormone blockers? No I don’t care if you can get your breast tissue removed and all I have to do is sign a form. You’re 11. Chill.

    This is such a sick dystopia we live in. It’s practically unreal.

    Liked by 5 people

    • yes it is a sick dystopia .

      There is no basis in medicine for doing any of this. Especially not the stuff with kids. The research that exists shows this thing that we’re always mentioning on gender critical blogs, that most gender dysphoric children grow up to be happy gay people. That’s what the research shows. If doctors were following the research they wouldn’t just be doing the kind of watchful waiting that Zucker did, they’d take that a whole lot further. And have no problem with the law restricting people from starting the sex change process before they were 21.

      The thing is there’s no pushback. As purplesage says this will start to change when the detransitioners start to sue. This whole mishmash mess will finally see the inside of a court room. And people will be scrutinizing it using normal criteria. Asking questions like “what does the scientific evidence say?” And it says the happy gay grownups thing. Once there is someone official, including a plaintiff’s attorney, standing up making various criticisms of this mess then there is the opportunity for reporters to start reporting on this as 😮A Controversy😮. And then there’s the possibility that someone will report on how it’s this weird subculture and all their strange pomo gendersparkle ideas. And that’s when we hit the tipping point. And it begins to change. The sort of horrifying information available on the gender critical blogs will start being reported in magazines, for instance. Once The Atlantic calls transgenderism a subculture we’ll know we’re on our way.

      People will start figuring out a way to think about transgender that encompasses there being a problem with it. And one of the things that they might do is say well OK medical transsexuals are like gay people but then there are these weird part timers over here. In other words the Handmaidens/Allies will find a way to step back from their mindless adulation where they still get to be Special Ally People. But it’s definitely going to change.

      There hasn’t been a kind of ‘official opposition’ to the trans-movement because they gay organizations threw in the towel. And there hasn’t been anybody else who is the natural opponent of the transgender ideology. The way the feminist movement is the natural opponent of restrictions on abortion. Hopefully people will set up organizations, there is Transgender Trend now that’s brand-new, in order to lobby government to not do the crazy things that the trans lobby wants. Like the crazy advice for schools brochure that fourth wave now had a post about yesterday where the trans-activist basically wrote the book for the National Education Association in the US.

      It will change. It will all go away. And everyone who aided and abetted this lunacy will pretend they never did.

      Also your hypothetical about being dragged into the school because your small daughter plays with dinosaurs and like space, was very vivid. A good illustration.

      Sorry this is so super duper long. I kind of warmed to my topic.

      Liked by 4 people

  4. Excellent post.

    The anti-gay-conversion-therapy elephant in the room is humongous, and it’s always ignored, whether they’re talking about kids or adults. I’ve read dozens of media stories, where there is a (formerly??) lesbian woman who has transitioned FTM. It’ll just be mentioned–in a sentence or two–that she **used to be** lesbian. That’s it. No followup questions. I haven’t seen a single reporter ask the obvious, like, “Well, what happened to your gay identity? Was that just not real somehow? Why would that be?” The whole thing is always only about celebrating being transgender. Nary a word about the lost lesbian.

    Liked by 4 people

  5. purplesage, the trans activists didn’t exactly lie about Zucker insulting that trans person. The trans person got Zucker mixed up with another doctor! And the assholes who did the “report” didn’t actually check this out, make any attempt to confirm what he told them! The author of the New York Magazine article did by showing the trans person a photograph of Zucker. And the person said no that’s not him. Plus the insulting doctor was a doctor he was seeing to get a referral for surgery. Zuckers clinic didn’t do those. Thus showing the “review” and it’s “report” were totally bogus and CAMH just intended to fire him because that’s with the activists wanted. (Same activist community that for a time were making nice with Steffonknee.😖)

    Liked by 2 people

  6. I particularly don’t understand how just about everyone in my skeptical, science-based groups has jumped on this trend, and accused anyone who dares try to bring up science and history of bigotry, “conversion therapy” (so ironic), and ignorance. They apply principles of skeptical inquiry to everything but the trans issue. There’s absolutely no evidence in history of trans kids, and even people who identified as various third genders (e.g., the Hijira of India) weren’t killing themselves because they didn’t have drugs and surgeries.

    I hope this disproportionately exploding trend comes to a crashing halt sooner than later, and that someday soon, this experimentation upon children and young adults is viewed the same way as we now view other discontinued medical procedures like twilight sleep, arsenic injections, and lobotomies.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Carrie-Anne, what’s twilight sleep? When we start talking about all these earlier medical fiascoes you always mention that. I thought I knew all the medical fiascoes. But I don’t know that one. Thanks.


      • Twilight sleep (Dämmerschlaf) is how many women gave birth from about 1907 to as recently as the early 1980s or late 1970s, depending upon the hospital. From what I’ve read, the way it was administered in Europe, where it was invented, was somewhat safer than the way it was administered in the U.S., since the German and Swiss doctors had had a lot more training in it and stayed with their patients to monitor their reactions instead of handing them off to nurses for most of labor.

        It was a cocktail of morphine and scopolamine, thus serving as both pain relief and amnesiac. Women thought they were going to sleep and would have no pain during childbirth, but in actuality, they just didn’t remember any of the pain or anything else that happened. Laboring women had to be tethered to the bed, with lamb’s wool restraints, because they thrashed about so violently. They also frequently had earplugs and had their heads wrapped in gauze. Since the women were so drugged and thus unable to push, babies necessarily had to be delivered with mid- to high forceps, and were often born groggy and not breathing. Twilight sleep was initially discontinued after a high-profile advocate died of it in 1915, but it soon came back, and at least one generation of women had no memory of giving birth because of it. It’s really sad and frightening to think of how my own grandmothers must’ve given birth like that.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Carrie-Anne, 😳 Morphine and scopolamine?! Isn’t scopolamine a psychedelic? I had no knowledge of this. I knew they used to knock women out to give birth. When I was born in the early 60s my mother explicitly sought natural childbirth. Which was considered odd back then. Forceps too. Which can squeeze the baby soft skull and cause brain damage, specifically cerebral palsy. Wow. That is an extremely good example of a stupid medical fad. Goes perfectly with trans. Thanks very much.


        • Just checked. Scopolamine is only a psychedelic in an overdose. It’s a plant derived chemical that’s present in the horrifying Jimson weed. Which is a psychedelic. It’s actually an anti-cholinergic, which is the kind of drug that is used among other more ordinary purposes as the first aid treatment for nerve gas exposure. It’s still totally crazy to give it to women in labor.


        • The drug has a multitude of purposes, including reducing vomiting, diarrhea and other bio secretions in surgical situations. It is psychoactive, yet not a pyschedelic drug per se.

          Liked by 1 person

        • At the turn of the century, most women had their babies at home, so your grandmas did not necessarily experience that. Let us hope not!

          Liked by 1 person

  7. Pingback: No one will admit it’s gay conversion therapy – Critiquing Transgender Doctrine & Gender Identity Politics

  8. I don’t agree with some of Dr. Zucker’s approach as described in this article. Taking away a child’s toys is cruel. Burning Barbie? Did that ring anybody else’s violence-against-women bells? But the goal of helping the child to feel comfortable in his/her natural body should be the first line of treatment. The wait-and-see approach also makes sense when you’re dealing with kids. If a sixtysomething-year-old like Caitlyn Jenner wants to fast track her transition, that’s different; Caitlyn is old enough to know who she is and what she wants. But a ten-year-old? A twelve-year-old? The fact that so many of these kids grow up to be gay or lesbian rather than trans deserves more attention from scientists than it’s getting.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Where is this ‘burning Barbie’ coming from? I never heard that. That’s the opposite of what was in the New York Magazine article. Zucker and the toys is the big thing that the transactivists lie about. According to the article all Zucker did was when a child was really fixated on a gender stereotype toy try to get the kid to play with other toys too. Including gender-neutral ones like stuffed animals. If the child had a particular toy that he, and it sounds like in consultation with the parents, thought the child might be obsessed with and via it obsessing on sex roles, that toy might be taken away temporarily. With other toys presented to replace it. So the kid would have this broader range of non-gender related toys. That shows that Zucker understood that a little kid’s thoughts about what sex they are could be both temporary and in fact, shown by the obsessing, be about some other emotional thing going on with the kid.

      Prior to reading the New York Magazine article I had read somewhere that Zucker took away cross gender toys. Like he was trying to enforce toys that followed the sex stereotypes for the child’s natal sex. And that is clearly totally untrue. He was trying to get them to be less gender focused and play with toys that were neither trucks nor Barbie. Which is good.

      I don’t completely agree with Zuckers approach though because I disagree with the idea of ‘sex change operations’. And I don’t believe either transgender or transsexuals are a real thing. Rather that they are a medical invention. As far as child-rearing goes everybody should be raised to gender-neutral. With absolutely zero sex stereotypes. Kids of both sexes play with everything.

      Liked by 2 people

  9. Of course it’s conversion therapy, and the worst kind ever. At least those conservative types leave the body intact in most cases. But transing children makes biological freaks, out of healthy children. There, I said it. But it’s true. How could anyone take a GNC girl and give her GnRH agonists that stunted her growth and caused her to have uterine abnormalities that caused her irregular bleeding? And then give her testosterone that will almost certainly require a hysterectomy a few years later? This is not something loving and compassionate people do. Loving parents would help their daughter find places she could thrive. Simply ignoring their child would be a better choice.

    And the boys. Are we really to the point that “If he likes dolls, cut off his balls” is the slogan of enlightened “liberal” people? Well, they don’t cut off the balls right away. First they give them GnRh agonists, “puberty blockers” in the magic believing pro-trans lingo. Yep, your boy is always gonna feel like he’s about to piss himself because the longer urethra he’s growing can’t figure out how to route through his underdeveloped prostate. His prostate needs FSH and testosterone, but he’s getting little of either. Why can’t this child grow up to be the next Boy George it that’s where he’s headed?

    Pills, injections, and surgeries are not signs of parental love toward a gender noncompliant child. They are signs of homophobia and hate.

    Liked by 2 people

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